A response to JesusIsMyGod

I saw a new movie coming out next year (isn't out yet) and one review was already out... A review by user "JesusIsMyGod" who basically attacks a movie not yet out.

Below is there review and beneath it, my response. http://www.fandango.com/legion_123850/readuserreviews

JesusIsMyGod's Review of the movie Legion:
wow. you tell us Christians to get off out high horse? why is it that people criticize us for believing in the TRUTH? is it so wrong to believe that lying stealing mudering and cheating is so wrong? yeah i didnt think so. we get criticized because we get offended when people mock christianity, but no if we were to say anything about someones elses "religion" (even though christianity tecqnically isnt a religion) we are horrible. and this movie totally turns the Bible around. Gods love is unconditional, wether you like it or not, he LOVES YOU! and then people are like "how can you judge movies and stuf when youve never even seen them" well why do they judge christians when they never even tried to understand it or even open a Bible.and legitly try, it doesnt take one day to understand it. you gotta keep working at it.

My response:
1. Your first error is in assuming you know the "truth" which assumes others are ignorant of the Truth. This is WHY (Key point, please remember this) people are antagonistic to Christianity. The Christian stands on their ivory tower judging others. This causes a reaction of "Fuck You" from society. The Christian in their ignorance says "oh my why all this anger? they must be deluded by the devil..." No, it's a reaction. A reaction against intollerance, ignorance and force. Force to believe one way as opposed to another.

The fact you mention you believe "the truth" assumes those who don't believe like you are not believing in what's "true." Hence why you will have friction with others. In other words - you don't play well with others.

2. You write, "Is it wrong to be believe lying, stealing, murdering and cheating is wrong? i didn't think so..." News flash - Christianity isn't the sole owner of Ethics. Budhists, Muslims, Hindu's, Jewish people, Pagans, and even the aethists' have values.

But since you bring your religion up as the founder of these ethics... let's clue you in a bit. The Bible basically tells people "what not to do" but give no method of achievement. "Be this way or go to hell." But no method to "be that way." Instead the New Testament offers "forgiveness" as it's just so impossible to have lasting change in one's life... so instead of overcoming sexual offenses, one just gets forgiveness from God.

But wait, What does God say in the Bible about rape, anger, and murder? JesusIsMyGod, you raised this point. That the Bible .. that Christianity teaches positive Ethics - but if you turn to the Old Testament, you will see God allows RAPE, God Endorses it. GOD comands Murder, destruction - sometimes even of women and children. This is the Christian Bible. Want the references? I bet you do:
Numbers 31:7-18
Duet 20:10-14
Duet 22:28-29
Duet 22:23-24
Duet 21:10-14
Exodus 21:7-11
Zach 14:1-2

These references are focused on Rape and Ravishment of Women. Women being sold into sexual bondage. In one passage above, it is the law of rape. That if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed - his punishment is to pay the family some silver and he gets to keep the woman as his sexual prise. In other passages above, if a woman is rapped and doesn't cry loud enough for someone to help her - she is to be killed.

Oh, I know what you'll say now, "That was the Old Testament, I live under the new New Testament... bought with the Blood of Jesus." Then why have the Old TEstament in your Bible?

Besides, everytime a Christian wants to judge others, go to war, support a political campagin, they dig up the old testament to show that God is ok with War. God is ok with Defense and military... so the Christian is simply "picking and choosing" what verses they prefer to follow.

3. Regarding your comment about critism. That people don't understand why a Christian is upset when they are mocked yet they mock others ar eare attacked. Better question - WHY WOULD YOU MOCK OTHERS, I FYOU DON'T LIKE IT YOURSELF?

4. Judging others and moves: you say, "and then people say, 'how can you judge movies and stuf when you haven't seen them?' Well why do they judge christians when they never tried to understand it or open a bible?"

Ok, you do understand your logic is this:
a) I don't like being judged
b) people judge me and my path
so c) I'll judge them too.

Basically you're commiting the same fault you have a problem with - being judged without evidence.

5. Regarding your idea that people Judge Christianity without opening a Bible or trying to understand it.

I can't speak for everyone who attacks you or your so called "logic" - but for me, I was born and raised in the Church system. My father a minister. While that doens't make me a Christian, I was a hard core, born again, fundamentalist Christian up till my adult hood. When I became an adult I began to see the logical flaws in my father's beliefs...... I saw the hypocracy in the Church. I saw the judgemental attitude. The idea that "jesus is coming back" so "why protect the environment? God's gonna destroy it all anyway, when Jesus comes back."

After Christianity, I became a Buddhist, then a Scientologist, and a Pagan. Currently I'm a occultist. I do have respect for the Christian faith - but I have to say, I've met maybe 3 or 4 people in my life who I'd consider a Christian. Most are followers of a spiritual movement that is really political in nature. They are closed/narrow minded biggots who want to use law to enact their way of life - to force others to "live moral lives."

As for not knowing the Bible... I know the Bible more then most of my Christian naysayers.... I'm not one to take away another's faith. But when a Christian (who stands in a glass house) throws stones, I feel obliged to point out the glass ceiling that is crashing down on them...

isaiah66.com

I was driving home the other night and I started seeing several bumper stickers that were pro Christian. One simply was a website: http://isaiah66.com

So I went there today. Very little is there, but what's there is the same material that's pounded from pulpit to pulpit. Basically harsh condemnation alongside words like "forgiveness" and "love."

It's quite insane... hearing "God loves you" with "Judgement day is coming" in the same paragraph. This is the insanity of the puritan Christian. The modern Christian Church.

I was reading some Aliester Crowley today, and I came across some gems from his work, "Confessions":

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/chapter6.html

“I was trying to take the view that the Christianity of hypocrisy and cruelty was

not true Christianity. I did not hate God or Christ, but merely the God and Christ of the people whom I hated.”

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/chapter7.html

“The fact is, of course, that the puritan has been turned by sexual repression into a sexual pervert and degenerate, so that he is insane on the subject.”

Crowley describes in great detail what it was like growing up in the Puritan days. Surprisingly it's not much different now.

There's the same Church movement... with it's momentum... attacking, reviling, and condeming the world. Their attacks are without logic, reason or understanding.

In Crowley's day idiotic displays by his headmaster for voting on student body presidents with, "I vote for Jesus" written over people's names... is nonsense. That same idiotic nonsense exists to this day.

On the flip side of the nonsense is the cruelty of the church. The beatings, the floggings, the treatment and punishment of others who have "sinned."

As in Crowley's day, his own scholastic ministers nearly killed him for Jesus.

We had a president recently in the U.S. who was elected by the Christian Right - who went to war in Iraq, and we know hear it was his intent to start a war with Iraq as he felt the End Times were upon us.

So people pandering websites like Isaiah66.com really should wake up. See that for two thousand years people have been looking for the return of Christ. For two thousand years the church has masacred millions of people. The modern established doctrines have tormented children and people. They have repressed people into degenerates and forced all sorts of wickedness to fuel their own prophecies of people waxing worse and worse.

Mary Baxter: Hell Visionary?

I've been out of the Christian Fundamental circuit for some time.  Last Yellow Journalistic book I ever read from that side of the tracks was by Bob Larson... that somewhat dates me I suppose. 

Now my wife is a Evangelical Christian - even though I'm quite the different path, we get along and respect each other's beliefs - Sometimes my wife gets a little opinionated about what I believe to be true, and she often challenges me on my own Theology.  For the most part, she was the typical church goer.  But recently I found her nose buried in a book.  This was quite the surprise because a) she doesn't enjoy reading and b) it was a spiritual book about Hell.  

I've encouraged my wife to keep reading the work, because I think it best to encourage people in the path they are drawn to... but at a certain point she began to get a tad preachy with me.  She began to quote the book, and the first thing she said immediately put me on guard.  My wife read from the book how Mary Baxter had this "vision" of Hell, and that in her vision "Hell" was at the center of the Earth....  No, I'm not making an analogy here... that was her literal and certain premise.  

As I looked into Mary Baxter, I discovered a woman who seems to be of kind demeanor - and possibly a compassionate soul, but someone who is so far down the rabbit hole of Fundamentalism... she possibly has some strong delusions going on.

Before getting to Mary's work, I'd like to mention that I myself do believe in spiritual visions and phenomena.  From my perspective, these things are often very personal and subject and valuable only to the individual who receives them.   Similar to a dream that has meaning to the dreamer, a vision holds a truth to the recipient, but what of everyone else? Is everyone else to follow Mary's vision?  I hope not.

My main points of contempt with Mary Baxter's visions come down to:

      - her repeated use of physical matter in her vision of spiritual realms.  

      - her depiction and description of people and Jesus

      - her use of these Dante'eque terror visions to promote Christian by use of Fear.

      - her lack of understanding of what Hell is.

Spiritual Realms and Physical Matter

Mary Baxter begins a tale of Jesus appearing unto her while she is praying.  I'm fine with that. Plausible.  I have an open mind.  Then she is taken in spirit to see the Earth... She witnesses these funnels or tubes that are spiritual in nature and extend into the center of the Earth.  Jesus explains to her that this is where Hell is.

Well that's my first problem. That's such a problem, that I tossed the book immediately.  Why is it a problem, that Hell is at the center of the Earth?  Because it's Oh So Convenient.   This is "Dark Age Mentality."  Back in the old dark ages of ignorance, man's mind didn't expound beyond his physical realm.  He thought the Earth was flat, because it "looked that way," he thought the Sun rotated around the Earth (because it looked that way) and he thought the Earth must be the center of the Earth.  Hell, if I'm not mistaken, was also conceived and visualized at that period in time, as being "part of the Earth."  

Earth Centric Spirituality is almost always faulty.  It's just so damn easy to think everything "resolves around the earth."  

Further, if Hell is in the Center of the Earth - is Heaven then in the sky?  I can remember stories of the Russian Scientists pondering a proof that Heaven doesn't exist if they could launch a manned space craft into orbit.  Well that was ignorance.  After all the concept of Heaven is not a Physical property.  Heaven is no more in the sky, then Hell is in the Earth.

The idea that a spiritual realm is housed in physical matter just wars against my view of the spiritual.  While Spiritual matter and beings can manifest into the physical world - they are not contained here.  They are non corpreal and the physical nature of this world holds no boundaries for such spiritual matter.

But not only is her vision Earth Centric, Mary Baxter's visions of the torment in Hell is mostly physical in nature to.  She describes boxes with holes in them, that people are forced into, then demons (who evidently look like shades with bat faces - I kid you not) thrust swords into the holes to harm and torment those inside. 

We know that physical matter wouldn't exist in Hell... so why is she describing it as literal.  These visions are not figurative in her speech.  She isn't indicating that this is how her mind must be interpreting torments in hell... no, this is what she thinks is really going on down there. So where do they get the boxes?  Do they make them?  Buy them?  Do they have some Global Economy of Scale down in Hell? Some guy makes the boxes, another makes the hinges, and someone drills the holes... another makes the swords... ???

When I was a child in the Christian Fundamental faith, I never considered the vision of Jesus with a sword out his mouth to be literal.  It was figurative speech.  It was a man's mind forming symbols to explain a vision.  

Mary Baxter is sadly going down a road of believing these physical depictions are occurring.  

Denizens of Hell & Jesus' Interaction with Them

I was watching an interesting Youtube.com video of Mary Baxter in a church, where she was going over her Book, A Divine Revelation of Hell, and she got to a point where she told a story about a woman she remembered... her story was about a woman that Jesus brought Mary Baxter to see.  This woman was once a Christian minister (which is odd, because you can count on a few hands how many Female Christian Ministers ever existed, and most likely narrow this down to who it was) who's husband had cheated on her with another woman.  Terrible emotional problem. Well this woman minister didn't like the fact everyone forgave her husband, so she took justice into her own hands, and shot him and his mistress dead... then turned the gun on herself.  It was at this point in the Video at this church, that Mary Baxter describes Jesus:

Jesus evidently confronts this tormented woman with, "If you only practiced what you preached, you wouldn't be here!" or something similar.  

I mean, come on!  So Jesus goes down to Hell to kick it and taunt the tormented?  It's like a child who played with fire and burned their ears off their head in some terrible accident and the father saying to the child throughout his life, "Well you're screwed now son! Look at you. You think any woman will have you? All you had to do is listen to Daddy and you'd still have ears and skin."  Yeah Real nice.  This description she gave, made Jesus sound like a real mean guy.

Back to the physical bodies ... in Mary Baxter's depiction of Hell, she continues to see the denizens of hell has having Physical form... of being "skeletons" with "dripping flesh" and "worms crawling through their bones."  

That's right. She thinks real worms are digging through the bones of these people in hell... and the people in hell have the forms of skeletons, or other monstrous creatures.  She mentions that these tormented skeletons of people feel the worms burrowing into their bones, and they cry out in agony.  

Terror Visions For Jesus

My main issue with Mary Baxter is her use of these Fear Tactics to scare people into Christianity.  Life is so scary in Hell, you better become a Christian OR ELSE!  At least that's Mary Baxter's attitude - and I dare say, the attitude of most Christian Fundamentalists.  

Mary's depiction of the torment rolls off her pen line by line.  After listening to her preaching, I began to realize she sounds like a woman vexed with the initial stages of Alzheimer's.  Her descriptions roll from one atrocious act to the next... you just about expect her to sensationalize up to, "And then the giant metal robot with the head of a gorilla came out and sodomized the men...." No she doesn't say that, but I almost expected it.  She leaps from one idea to the next as an elderly man might do who is in a stage of delirium.   In her defense, she does seem quite alert... but it's just that jump from one to the next... it's odd.  Quite odd.

She constantly cries out about how these people are the lost who didn't find Jesus, or who rejected him.  She has stories of every kind of backslider - from those who turned a deaf ear, to those who willfully disobeyed God.  Even a story of a Hindu who was cast into Hell for not listening to the Missionaries.  

What's Hell Anyways?

Many spiritualists don't believe in a Hell.  Possibly there is a Hell, possibly not.  Possibly those who believe in Hell, create one when they die... and those who don't believe in hell, possibly do not experience in death.  

To the Buddhist, there are Hell realms.  Realms based on the collective Karma of the individual. But these hellish realms are really the perceptions of the individual that form terrible realms to the recipient. 

Each religion has their own ideas on the subject.

To me, Hell would most likely be the absence of Divine Light.  I look at Life from a Kabalistic view... That on one extreme we have the Existence of God (as Pure Light Energy), and the other, the absence of Light.  In between the areas of greater or lesser degrees of Light - The Qlippoth at the end of pure darkness... and then the demonic realms, then the physical universe, and then the angelic realms, and ultimately God.  

But as with all Light, if one sits long enough in a dark room, and light has no decay, it will eventually overcome and fill the entire darkness of the room.  In other words, in time, all things reach heaven.  

But my view, is just that - a view.  It's something that works for my personal perceptions.  It's not something I should run out and spout as gospel.  

Whether Hell exists or does not is up to you to decide. But make an informed and logical choice.  Not a choice based on fear and emotion... that is evidently making Mary Baxter some good $$$.... I smell a movie in the making... I bet by year's end we'll all hear about a movie about Mary's vision.

Christianity Unclothed: "Hurting People's Feelings are virtues, not vices" - Robert Morey

It is with mixed emotions that I come across such garbage as Dr. Robert Morey's work:

http://biblicalthought.com/blog/satire/

On one hand I feel revulsion for his ignorance...

But on the other hand I feel elated - I have one more reason to show people, why I left this path.

Let's review this article and talk by one, Dr. Robert Morey:

http://biblicalthought.com/blog/satire/

He's talking about the use of satire in Christian responses to non believers. You know, the quant little whips of wisdom like, the bumper sticker of a Jesus Fish (ichthus) eating a Darwin Fish... or those little jibs you might hear in conversation. They usually start after a Christian feels the strong arm of Logic, Reason and Rejection - then comes the emotionalism that Dr. Morey defends.

But lets get to the heart of the matter... or in Dr. Robert Morey's case, the lack of his heart. He begins by explaining that Jesus, the Apostles and great Christians throughout history have used ridicule and angst in their responses to opposition.

He might be right... if he is, it's one reason to Reject Christianity outright.

But, if I might offer an apologist view here... I think Dr. Morey is off base in interpreting Jesus calling of Hypocrites as satire or jest. I never thought it was meant that way, but a way of calling someone out who was in error. Satire, is more like saying, "You're god is stupid," or "Why follow a fat man with a shaved head?" Which is the muddy mirky waters that Dr. Robert Morey swims in.

In that article Dr. Morey writes, "I spoke at Biola University on Islam and young girl came up all upset because I said that Muhammad was stupid as well as evil. If getting people mad, making them cry, and hurting their feelings were sins, then hell is the greatest sin God commits! God does not give a rip about your feelings. He wants you to be holy, not happy."

Let's break this down. According to Dr. Morey:

A. It's ok to call a religious icon of another "stupid" and "evil"

B. If people get mad, cry, or have hurt feelings - so what?

C. If hurting people's feelings was a sin, then hell is the great sin God commits (more on this later)

D. God does not give a 'rip' about your feelings

E. God wants you to be Holy, not Happy

Five good points. Let's run through them one by one, logically:

Point A: Is it ok to call some religious icon of another "stupid" and "evil"? Well would you want someone to do that to your religious icon? would you want someone saying something bad about Jesus? The whole Christian persecution complex is due to what they send out - this negativity. Remember, by your own faith Dr. Morey, "As you SOW, so shall you REAP." If you don't want the world's ire pointed in your direction, don't draw it out.

Point B: What's wrong with hurting people's feelings? Because it's hurting. To the point of personal ethics and responsibility, what's the difference between a slap in the face, or a spiteful word? NOTHING. To the recipient it's different in degree, but you, the individual have this dark cancer in your heart - it's called "harming others" and Christians like Dr. Morey here, love it. They feel that dark evil course in their heart and they mistake it for Godly Ire. The speak their hateful thoughts and shirk the responsibility saying "it aint no thing." But a true spiritual person (of any religion) would know two things: a) First, there is a return for all thoughts and actions and b) Second, you shall know them by the fruits of their tree.

Point C: Dr. Morey got it right... from his personal perspective, Hell is the biggest Sin God Commits... and the God of the Christians certainly commits sin. Throughout the Old Testament, God promotes War, Jealousy, Hate, Angry, Destruction and even Rape. Maybe that was Dr. Robert Morey's subconscious speaking some truth there for a moment.

Point D: So God doesn't give a Rip about your feelings... so the return should be, mankind doesn't give a rip about God's. But more to the point, what kind of concept of God is this? why follow it? If a person can find a reason to believe in different religions, why pick this version of this religion? Dr. Morey is worshiping the archetype of the Devil.

Point E: You heard it... God doesn't want you happy, he wants you Holy. Fascinating.

To take a respite for just a moment, let me quickly add, that I actually believe in God. But when I read this nonsense of Dr. Morey, I realize how glad I am I left that nonsense behind me. I feel sorry for him, and those who follow after him... they know no peace. What they call peace is just the bonds of cruelty they share amongst themselves.

Dr. Morey gives us a great chance to practice patience. It is ignorance such as his, that we can use in meditation to learn to forgive even such as these. I'm going to post a Buddhist meditation in a later post that will give an example of visualizing those that frustrate us, and seeing how they are actually very similar to those we love, and thereby we can achieve a more peaceful state of mind.

Back to the post of Dr. Robert Morey: From this point, Dr. Morey condemns the apologists who say Christians should be nice and caring - reaching people with compassion and kindness... not with cruelty. In fact he states (regarding the person who was upset over the remarks against Islam), "... she agreed that the prophets, the apostles, Jesus and God the Father ridicules and mocked people and called them names such as 'stupid' (ex. Jer. 10:8-21). She replied: 'BUT WE SHOULD NOT FOLLOW THEIR EXAMPLE BUT BE NICE!' Such ignorance! Such stupidity is only rebellion covered up in the name of being nice."

So you now have one more reason to not trust the Fundamental Christian Path. After all it's all the angst, animosity and torment that is in the "evil" they condemn. No wonder more people are looking for alternative religion and beliefs these days.

What we can learn from this:

If you hold animosity towards others - it will eat you up. Holding in anger and resentment long enough - you'll become just like this Dr. Morey. We need to let go of these fetter emotions, before they drag our spirits down into the real hell of inner gloom and desolation in our hearts.

Next up... Mary Baxter on my Chopping Block

Then later... More on Dr. Robert Morey (on the Occult)

Fundamental Waste: What's it all about?

I have great respect for other belief systems, but one thing that is at war with my spirit is intolerance.  Intolerance is self important, ego-ridden actions pushed onto others.

I grew up in an intolerant family.  My father being a Pentecostal Minister, and my Mother far more a religious zealot then my Father.  I love them both, but in time I found their paths were quite off from my own.

It took time, but I slowly formed a view of acceptance of others and the paths that others take.  My current wife is a charismatic Christian, and I truly respect that.  My daughter (from a previous marriage) is being raised with Christian principals, and I respect that as well.  The Christian path is no longer mine, but I respect others to follow the path of their hearts. 

In my lifetime, I was a Christian, Buddhist, Scientologist, and a Pagan/Occultist.   I learned that each of these paths seemed to work, so long as I was compatible with it.  The result of which, was a world view that I adopted - which taught me to respect the beliefs of others and encourage people to find their path that is true to their heart.  

Recent events have caused me write this blog.  Normally I avoid the naysayers and negative agenda's of the Fundamentalist Right-Wing movements... but lately it's been unavoidable.  

The Fundamental Christian movement has some great material to actively attack.  Namely these two come to mind:

Mary Baxter

Dr. Robert Morey

Each week, I'm hoping to add some responses to material that is out on the net, as well as floating around in other media.  I'm tired of this intolerance.  I'm tired of the ignorance and wrong views espoused by various religious groups, and individuals.

I believe in a person's free thinking and spiritual choices, but when their choices begin an invasion of the souls of others, I will make a stand to expose their own hidden agenda's and illusions.